joined now by the London MP George
Galloway who yesterday reminded us that
he argued that the wars in Afghanistan
and Iraq would increase the threat of a
terrorist attack in Britain tragically
he went on londoners have now paid the
price of the government ignoring such
warnings that was a pretty crass thing
to say there wasn't it when bodies are
still not even buried or identified well
actually the political note was set by
the Prime Minister and the president of
the United States within moments of the
explosions hours before I made my speech
in the Commons the argued that these
events were a Vindication of their
so-called war on terror and a
justification for continuing down the
path that they're on and no one can
allow that because it's precisely that
path it's precisely those policies that
have led us to this but don't don't you
think you owe it to the relatives of the
Bev to be more sensitive at this time
than to tell them that they paid a price
for a policy because it sounds as if you
were playing the politics of the last
atrocity no no it was Mr Bush and Mr
Blair who spoke first who were as the
leaders of count playing the politics of
the last atrocity seeking to use these
poor dead people most of whom I'm sure
opposed these wars just as much as I did
because most people in London did in
overwhelming numbers you were saying I
told you were saying I told you so no no
because I'm trying to stop the next
attack I'm stop trying to stop the next
dis everybody wants so let's have a
discussion then let's not recriminate
let's talk about how we can stop but you
caused Great offense to no I didn't
actually actually pois tongue a pull of
blood according to the Armed Forces
Minister from the Armed Forces Minister
well I don't think we need to say much
more about that he would say that
wouldn't he as uh as uh a famous uh
Harlot once said the reality is that if
we continue with the current policy
there are going to be more tragedies
such as this would you negotiate with
these people not with them there's no
negotiating with them because they don't
have a program that can be negotiated
with what we need to do is dry up the
swamp out of which they're feeding
breeding and growing we need to address
the issues that provide a base for them
in the world where millions of people
support them some of them actively
that's a fact you look surprised no I
don't look surprised you're saying
something which everybody agrees with we
want F terrorists absolutely but the
question is how do you go about that do
you do you engage with them no you don't
nothing on God's Earth that they want is
there there's no point in talking to
them but if you address the issues no of
course lock them up shoot them do let's
do what we can to stop them in any way
I'm for that but unless we address the
causes which are providing the recruits
for them the disaster in Palestine the
road map that's drenched in Blood and
going nowhere the occupation of Iraq the
propping up of tyrants in the Muslim
World unless we drop address these
issues they'll get there'll be 10,000
new you really think that the people who
blew up commuters in a London tube were
think about any of these things no I'm
telling you these people cannot be
negotiated with no but they were
recruited from somewhere weren't they
look the fish needs water in which to
swim it needs recruits it needs
supporters but there are plenty of
people who think that there's something
wrong in Palestine or plenty of people
who oppose the Iraq war or Afghanistan
who don't do anything like this but look
the Torah Bora once held a few hundred
alqaeda members now there are probably
thousands of al-Qaeda supporters around
the world actively seeking to hurt us
now how do we dry that up is the
question how do we drain that swamp of
hatred and bitterness against us that's
feeding these people and making them
more powerful I'm sure sure everybody
does agree with that but do you not owe
it to your constituents to speak more
carefully about this subject when you
know that Muslim leaders are saying do
exactly that don't you lecture me about
my constituents I'm answerable to them I
wasn't leing you I'm asking you do you
not it at a time when Muslim
leaders very calm been walking around my
consc careful about your language please
I've been walking around my constituency
all day and you know what everybody
agrees with me and if you didn't live in
this bubble in everybody in your
constituency agrees with George everyone
that I met today every single one and I
met hundreds and hundreds today and if
you didn't live inside this bubble
inside the belt where you'd know theast
MOS doesn't live in this bubble and he
wants people to be very careful you
think the IM of the East London Moss
doesn't agree with me he wants people to
be very careful about the language that
they use list listen most people in this
country outside this bubble know that
what I'm saying is right and the
overwhelming number of people around the
world know that what I'm saying is right
it's only because you persist in parting
government orthodoxies which you've been
doing for some years I've been watching
you it's because people heart innocent
people then the people who did it are to
blame but you can't separate it from the
backdrop of which it forms a part that's
the thesis that differentiates us from
the uh platitudes of Mr Blair who wants
to be tough on terror but ignore the
causes of Terror so Tony Blair has
brought destruction to London well the
people who brought destruction to London
were primarily the people who committed
the acts of mass murder all we say is we
refused to be part of a conspiracy to
deny that it has anything to do with the
fact that our country is going around
the world setting fire to other people's
countries and killing them I think
there's hardly a sentient being in the
land left who does doesn't believe that
these things are connected although when
I said it in the House of Commons just
four weeks ago the sky fell in on me
including on The Today program well you
say that the fault lies with those who
carried out the attack so you're
condemning the suicide bombs in London
well I'm almost insulted by that
question I have condemned it utterly in
the most vitriolic terms on every
occasion I've spoken which is every day
and including on the day in the House of
Commons in a way I'm bound to say how
dare you ask me that question the sort
of well the reason I ask it is because
the kind of language that you've
employed in this series of interviews
for television stations in Middle East
could I'm sure you you will agree be
seized upon by certain people as a
justification for what they plan to do
Madam if I say a car has four wheels and
the Ford Motor Company say it has four
wheels that doesn't make me a part of
the Ford Motor Company I am telling you
the truth as I see it it was my duty to
do so I did it in the house of on the
day of the bombing the entire media and
political class fell on top of my head I
was insulted on news Night by uh by your
gav esler uh who said I was crass and
within 10 days 85% of the people in the
opinion polls agreed with me so please
don't misrepresent what I'm saying I'm
utterly against the punishing of
innocent people for the crimes of the
guilty whether it's done on the
Underground in London or on the streets
of fua by George Bush's Air Force when
you said on your Middle East television
interview that the insurgents are
Martyrs what did you mean well I didn't
say the insurgents are Martyrs and
you're drawing from well the Iraqi
resistance in Iraq a martys you said a
martyr by definition is dead the Iraqi
resistance are very much alive and the
problem is they're making a lot of other
people dead and I want to stop the
killing I want to withdraw our soldiers
and the United States soldiers from a
disastrous War based on a tower of Lies
which any sentient person can already
see was a huge blunder it seems that in
the last routs of the BBC and in Downing
Street there's an unwillingness to
accept that but I can tell you as
someone who lives their life in
Democratic politics amongst the people
of this country it's you who's isolated
not me you have said that two of your
beautiful daughters are in the hands of
foreigners Jerusalem and Baghdad the
foreigners are doing to your daughters
as they will some Arab count countries
are collaborating with the rape of those
two beautiful Arab daughters why did you
choose to use such inflammatory language
language which according to your critics
people like Eric Joyce put the lives of
British soldiers at risk well I don't
think there are any British soldiers
occupying Jerusalem or Baghdad for that
matter but I believe the foreign
occupations of Jerusalem and Baghdad are
at the heart of the crisis between the
the Muslim world and the non-muslim
world the East and the west and I
believe we have to address that and if
we don't we're doomed to be locked into
a cycle of violence our violence to them
their violence to us I want to break
that cycle I believe that Baghdad is
illicitly illegally violently occupied
by the United States I believe that
Jerusalem is illegally violently
occupied by General Chiron I'm not alone
in that view you're not alone in your
view about not uh wanting to end British
troops position in Iraq indeed there are
other politicians who've argued against
the war in the same way not in the
language that you've employed you talk
of Arab countries collaborating with the
rape of two beautiful Arab daughters
Jerusalem and Baghdad well with language
like that let me just finish with
language like that are you prepared to
take responsibility for Fanning the
Flames of an already dangerous situation
fueling disaffection for example among
British Muslim youth who will then say
well here's our justification for
staging suicide bombings for for going
to Al-Qaeda training camps don't you
dare try and place responsibility for
that on me I'm the person who if I I had
been listened to we wouldn't be in this
mess we wouldn't be in Iraq if the BBC
and the British government had listened
to the millions of British people
marching against the war we are the
people who told you if you attack Iraq
in this way you'll make 10,000 new bin
laddin we are the people who beseeched
you to stop pedling your propaganda lies
about the need for this war but you see
this comes back who should be accusing
you not you who's accusing me this comes
back to the argument though that we
weren't in Iraq when 9/11 happened when
B was bombed over the past 12 years
Al-Qaeda have attacked 26 countries it's
not just Iraq I know that argument I
heard it the first time employed by Mr
Blair and you've uh you've succinctly uh
restated his position but it's true but
it's not true the alqaeda phenomenon
arose out of the first war on Iraq arose
out of the occupation of Jerusalem and
the killing of the Palestinians and the
dispersal of the refugees around the
world arose out of our support for the
puppet presidents and corrupt Kings of
the Muslim world that's how the al-Qaeda
phenomenon arose now I don't know if
Usama Bin Laden would stop attacking us
if we stopped doing what we're doing in
the Muslim world but I tell you this I
know that a fish needs water in which to
swim and if we did what I'm suggesting
that we do we would dry up the swamp in
which alqaeda and these other
obscurantists these medieval
obscurantists want to swim I'm not
wanting to negotiate with Bin Laden but
with those who haven't joined him yet
was it wise to say as you said it's not
the Muslims who are the terrorists the
biggest terrorists are Bush and Blair
well that's my view I was elected on
that view I have a mandate for that view
you may not like that view but it is my
view that the biggest terrorist in the
world is George W bush now I have to
tell you say bu Blair are more
terrorists than those who blew up London
on the July have you any idea how many
innocent people George Bush and Tony
Blair have killed over the last three
and a half years have you any idea how
many people they killed in Afghanistan
how many people they've killed in Iraq
how many people their weapons have
killed in Palestine what about the
numbers of innocent civilians the that
have been killed by the insurgents in
Iraq if you did have any idea you
wouldn't even ask me that question if
it's a question of quantum there's far
more blood on the hands of George Bush
and Tony Blair than there is on the
hands of the murderers who killed those
people in London it's it's a question of
quantum there is no question